Episode 29: Community Gardens Conversations

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0:00 Carers Queensland Announcement:  Everybody has rights, but sometimes it’s not easy to speak up and advocate for yourself.  It takes confidence, resilience, knowing your rights, and knowing someone has your back.  Be The Voice You Want To Be can help.  It’s a free program from Carers Queensland for people with disability.  It will build your skills, help you be a strong advocate for yourself, your family and friends, maybe even your community.  Along the way you’ll build a peer network so you have a squad to support you speaking up.  Find out more, get in touch or look for events and opportunities coming up near you: visit our website at carersqld.com.au or call our enquiries line on 1300 999 636.   

0:50 Introduction: Choice and Control, a podcast celebrating people with disability, brought to you by Carers Queensland, NDIS Local Area Coordination Partner in the Community.   

We’re growing access and inclusion, and where better to grow things than a garden?  Carers Queensland is working with community gardens to help them attract green thumbs with disability and make sure everybody’s welcome and has equal opportunity to get their hands dirty.  That includes Yarrabilba community garden in Logan.  It’s been quiet for a couple of years but is now budding back to life thanks to the new organiser, Talecia Bolton.  Talisha discovered the garden while she was reinventing her life after acquiring disability.   

1:35 Talecia Bolton: I didn’t really start getting involved properly with the community garden until I became unwell and was unable to work, and that was last year.  I was struggling really badly with my mental health, I wasn’t leaving the house because of my disability, I was feeling really isolated and lonely, bored.  I had to get used to my new body, and a lot of my hobbies I could no longer do anymore. So my partner and I had a bit of a discussion, and we decided we’d look into a hobby we can do together and we thought the community garden would be the best option because I love gardening and I was missing it really badly.  With my symptoms I am very limited to what I can do, so my partner and carer Thomas said he would help me. So we started going to the community garden together.  It’s mostly me sitting there watching him, but that has also been amazing for my mental health, just clearing my head, getting out of the house, socialising and just enjoying gardening. 

2:48 Jodie van de Wetering: And as well as going to the garden, being there and seeing what goes on, you then became involved in the leadership of the organisation, is that right? 

3:00 Talecia: Yes, when we started going to the garden last year the group that had the garden, they were actually making the decision to give it up.  They were giving up the lease.  It was completely abandoned, the garden looked like a forest of weeds, so we got in contact with the council asking what was going on.  For about three months we were searching, trying to find a new group to help auspice the garden.  We had no luck so we ended up deciding to take it on ourselves and we created our own incorporated group to take on the garden. We didn’t want to see the garden go to waste, it had so much potential.  Currently the application’s with the council at the moment we’re just waiting on approval.   

3:44 Jodie: Wow, that’s a big step. 

3:47 Talecia: Yeah, we’re excited. Hopefully it can be a big part of the community.  You know, there’s a lot, especially with what’s going on with the world now, a lot of people in need so it would be amazing to have fresh produce available for those in need.  We have a lot of pantry food available, you know, community pantries in the area. But we don’t have any fresh produce, so that would be amazing for the community. 

4:14 Jodie: What would you say to other people with disability or chronic illness about getting involved with a community garden? 

4:18 Talecia: Try not to let your disability stop you.  Don’t feel like because you can’t do what the average person can do, that you shouldn’t go.  It’s okay if you’re just sitting there and watching, or doing tiny little bits. Just go and enjoy the environment and enjoy watching others.  You might have to do things in a different way, but that’s completely okay. It’s there for us to enjoy and it’s a perfect opportunity for those with disabilities because we tend to struggle with our mental health so it’s a perfect opportunity for us to get out in the community and do something new. 

4:59 Jodie: On the other side looking at it from the gardens’ perspective, what can the gardens do to be more accessible or to make people with different needs more welcome? 

5:06 Talecia: I think it’s important that you have an online presence.  I personally when I want to go somewhere I need to contact them first, I need to look on their Facebook page or their website. I need to make sure that they’re wheelchair friendly, that I can actually go there.  So if you’ve got a Facebook page or a website, writing that you’re wheelchair accessible or having contact information so that they can contact you. That’s really important, because it might not be about mobility, they might have questions about other things before they want to get involved. So I think that’s very important. And it can be quite hard for us to get to the garden, we might not be able to drive there ourselves.   

I think just being really supportive and welcoming, just letting them know, you know, if you need support just ask.  If you think there’s anything we can do to make your time at the garden easier, just ask.  If they can’t themselves, they might have a carer that can help with that.  Just be supportive, just be welcoming so that they feel comfortable asking for help if they need it. 

6:18 Jodie: And then listening and following up on what your individual users need to be welcome and comfortable in that space. 

6:25 Talecia: There’s so many different disabilities and each person is unique, each person’s different, so it’s important to talk to them and find out what they need. 

6:36 Jodie: Where would you like to see the garden in maybe a couple of years’ time? 

6:41 Talecia: We just want to see it being used.  It’s been several years now and it’s been abandoned.  We want to see it flourishing, we want to see the community being involved, community groups being involved, lots of community events, lots of fruit and veg and flowers, yeah. We just want to see it completely turned around 

7:03 Jodie: Jasmin Fawcett Clarke is part of Carers Queensland’s Community Gardens Conversations.  Her role involves working one-on-one with community gardens to help plant access and inclusion across everything they do, from policies and procedures to day-to-day life in the weeds.  It’s about creating accessible green spaces for everyone. 

7:24 Jasmin Fawcett Clarke: Community gardens are spaces that can offer social and economic participation opportunities to people in their community.  We know that people with disability have been excluded from many activities in their local communities, and that there is some unexplored human talent when we look at some of the community gardens’ barriers to getting long term volunteers, getting attendees in their gardens.  We know from people with disability who we’ve spoken to how important community gardens have been in their life. We’ve heard stories where they’ve made friends in their local communities, we’ve heard people going on to start their own businesses, all from that initial engagement in community gardens.  So we know that community gardens in their nature have welcoming and positive attitudes, and this project is really about finding ways to solidify that ethos in practical ways that will lead to increased participation for people with disability. 

8:25 Jodie: Improving inclusion and accessibility is a big part of Carers Queensland’s role as the NDIS Local Area Coordination Partner in the Community. 

8:31 Jasmin: Carers Queensland were approached by Vera Street Community Garden.  They’re a smaller boutique community garden in Toowong, and they were asking for support to be more inclusive and welcoming for people with disabilities so we started to explore how we might get involved and how we might help them. 

8:51 Fiona Stutz: And when did that start? 

8:52 Jasmin: Mid 2020 we connected Vera Street to Northey Street City Farm, which is a larger and more robust community garden in Brisbane.  Almost two years later we’re now working with community gardens across Brisbane, Morton Bay, Sunshine Coast, Logan, and we’ve even spoken to people out in Ipswich and Toowoomba.  We’re working with all those community gardens to build their awareness and capacity to be more inclusive of people with disability. 

9:20 Jodie: Community Gardens Conversations included a consultation process where Carers Queensland surveyed community gardens, visited gardens in the southeast corner and organised public forums, one last year and one in March this year. 

9:33 Jasmin: In bringing the community garden representatives and people with disability together, the two groups were really able to see value in each other.  The gardens were able to hear firsthand some experiences from people with disability and understand how participation in community gardens can take many forms.  The ideas and possibilities discussed were, excuse the pun, seeds for greater inclusion in this space. 

10:01 Fiona: Tell me more about the resources that you’re developing. 

10:04 Jasmin: So the resources that we’re looking to develop are going to bring together all of the learnings that we’ve had throughout the two forums that we’ve been conducting, working with community gardens and people with disability to come up with ideas, prompts, things that are going to help community gardens take steps towards greater inclusion. 

10:28 Fiona: And so some of the community gardens that attended the forum, what new things are they introducing into their community gardens that they’ve learnt from that forum and they’re introducing so they can be more inclusive and accessible? 

10:39 Jasmin: We’ve had stories from community gardens who have tweaked their induction processes, so really simple things like asking in their induction process if somebody does have additional needs or how they might like to be supported.  They’re now listing a range of activities that people can participate in in the garden, so really clearing setting out what opportunities exist in our garden so people can choose where they’re going to best fit.  We’ve had community gardens who are now openly advertising the community garden as welcoming to people with a disability and things like that. 

11:18 Fiona: That’s fantastic. And so what does the community gardens project want to achieve in the future? 

11:24 Jasmin: I mentioned before we’re working towards some more tailored resources to cultivate greater inclusion in community gardens and continue to grow this project into other service areas.  We also really want to make sure that we’re connecting with our primary audience, people with disability, so that we can position community gardens as spaces for meaningful social and even economic participation.  So by nurturing the community partnerships we’ve already got and sharing experiences from people like Nathan and Talecia we really want to grow that inclusion and harvest participation. I’m sorry for the puns but it’s all about, you know, getting our community gardens ready, more inclusive, more accessible spaces, and then letting people with a disability know that these spaces are available and what some of the benefits of participating in them might be. 

12:19 Carers Queensland announcement: Do you have a passion or a talent to share with the world? A small business can be a great way for people with disability to earn income, build your confidence, be more independent and be an active part of your community.  Carers Queensland is supporting our next generation of entrepreneurs with the Be Your Own Boss Microbusiness Project.  It’s a place to find out what it means to start a business, whether it’s a good fit for you, connect with business mentors and learn from existing microbusiness owners, and even opportunities to showcase your goods and services in the Be Your Own Boss Marketplace.  Find out more, get in touch or look for events and opportunities coming up near you: visit our website at carersqld.com.au or call our enquiries line on 1300 999 636. 

13:09 Jodie: One of the gardens we’re working with is one of Queensland’s newest: Beachmere Community Garden which is still being established.  It was created by local gardeners to share skills, knowledge and fresh produce.  Their representatives David and Jill say accessibility is really important, because it’s intended to be a space for the whole community. 

13:29 David: So accessibility was kind of the first step, so that’s when we were looking at basic things like hard surfaces, wide paths, things like that. And then one of the people that really put us on the right direction was Sarah from Carers Queensland.  She showed us that it’s beyond accessibility and that’s what inclusion is. That’s when we started to realise there’s so much more to it than just having a site that’s accessible. That’s where we kind of learnt from there there’s so many other steps to it and that we’ve now put into our plans and even into our communications and things like that to make it more inclusive for people. 

14:13 Jill: Well its more about getting in touch with people who work within those industries, so people working with disabilities, making ourselves known to them and then through that knowing what their requirements are, what their needs are. Then when we are planning things we can take those into consideration as to how we will present those items and things like that or little workshops that we might be running, you know, things that we might just have to tweak to make it just that little bit more inclusive for some people. Most people won’t even probably sort of notice any differences, but for those people who have disability can feel comfortable you know joining in and participating. 

14:58 Fiona: Are you working with any organisations or established any partnerships? 

15:00 David: Yeah, quite a few. So one of the first ones was with Lions Club at Beachmere, they’ve been really supportive from the start and they’ve assisted us with some terrific funding.  The Beachmere Men’s Shed has been great.  We’ve been building some mobile wicking gardens which we hope to have on site and they’ve been working on the frames, all the metalwork for that.  As I said before, Carers Queensland have been with us pretty much from the start, just really assisting and providing information.  We’ve been in contact with a lot of the local disability support groups, the schools, we’re just trying to network with as many people to get the word out about what we’re about and how we can all work together to provide this really great community space. 

15:55 Fiona: That’s great. And have you consulted with people with disability in the planning of the community gardens? 

16:02 David: Yeah, we have, from the very start. Some of our members worked in the disability support area so they’ve been great from the start, and we’ve also been working with one of the groups in Caboolture with the planning and the design of the project. So we’ve been getting some great feedback from them.  Even things like how do you get to the site, you know, when you get to the site are you going to be welcomed or is there going to be any barriers to joining or feeling like part of the group, so just teaching us you know even just basic interactions to make them feel welcome. 

16:47 Jill: Just the basics things, you know, heights that are accessible for people with disabilities. Generally trying to provide things, and this is where we need to work with them, like do they want to do gardening or do they just want to come in a nice tranquil area in our sensory garden area, or do they actually really want to get in and get their hands dirty? Because there is lots and lots of different disabilities, not just physical, there’s so many so you have to deal with them as they come up and provide something that is appropriate for them. 

17:17 Jodie: A lot of community gardens work closely with their local council, and that means councils have a role as well in improving accessibility.  Micah Lean is a community development officer with Moreton Bay Regional Council.  They’re involved in community gardens conversations as part of the council’s wider plans for inclusion. 

17:37 Micah Lean: A lot of attention has been put on community gardens in the past couple of months and years.  We’d like to really join in that momentum and be a part of the movement towards a lot of Australians wanting to grow or learn about growing their own food at home, but also to be more connected to their community and their neighbourhood.  I’ve gotten to know quite a few people from Carers Queensland in the past couple of years, people who have shown just incredible passion and spirit of collaboration and desire to see positive change in the community. Yeah, they’ve definitely been leaders in this sort of work in trying to increase the accessibility and inclusion of community gardens across the Moreton Bay region and beyond. 

18:29 Fiona: So why do you think it’s important for Council to collaborate with Carers Queensland? 

18:34 Micah: I guess we see it as important to collaborate with Carers Queensland because we’re learning and we want to hear from their expertise.  We have a focus on access and inclusion in our council, but there’s a lot of work to be done ongoing so happy to have that connection and partnership with a group that’s so keen to share their knowledge and be collaborative in their work. 

19:06 Fiona: And where do you see this partnership with Carers Queensland and Moreton Bay Regional Council going in the future? 

19:11 Micah: I’d really like to see us having access and inclusion, which Carers Queensland really lead in, I’d really like to see access and inclusion as sort of a hallmark of all the community gardens in Moreton Bay, and beyond that you know throughout south-east Queensland. We’d like to sort of make those initial points where every community garden has an understanding of access and inclusion but also sort of strides towards making that a core part of their group in their garden. Whether that’s for infrastructure or whether that’s for people themselves being more inclusive, I could definitely see this partnership growing on into the future and connecting our community gardens but also Carers Queensland continuing to support our groups as well.  So yeah, looking forward to what’s ahead. 

20:04 Fiona: Sometimes community gardens can find it a little bit difficult engaging with council, you know, going through a little bit of red tape to try and get things up and running. Do you have any tips for community gardens when they are interacting with council on how to get their community gardens running with council support? 

20:20 Micah: To be honest there are a lot of – especially on council land, obviously community gardens in our region are in all different land arrangements whether that’s private land or public land like on State government land – gardens who are on council lands do have to go through a bit of a process, especially in the initial set up with getting things across the line.  So there’s things that we can do to make that process smoother as well, but I guess in terms of tips and ideas for groups definitely keeping the communication channels open. Making a connection with us and the community development team to try to smooth some of those things over, because sometimes the requirements that are put up need to be abided by every community group that has their project on council lands, but there are sometimes times where it’s just important to have a chat with someone about what those things actually mean because sometimes it can be confusing. I definitely acknowledge that, so yeah, keeping the communication channels open and just hoping towards smoother processes into the future as well. 

21:38 Jodie: Nathan Freney from Swallowtail Nursery was diagnosed with Aspergers in his teens, and now supports other people with disability to experience the joy of gardening through community gardens or paid work in horticulture. 

21:52 Nathan Freney: With my business what I’m trying to do now is trying to include everyone that has a disability to come into one community garden and then embrace it to be all inclusive.  Everyone has different disabilities, mine’s Aspergers and I’ve got a lot of friends that have Down syndrome, autism and stuff like that, they are lovely people. Well with my business I help them understand how they can include people who are living with disabilities into community gardens. 

22:22 Jodie: Now you’ve been doing some really cool stuff in this area, for instance looking at ways people who use wheelchairs can still access garden beds so they can physically get out and do stuff.  So what’s some of the stuff you’re doing with the gardens? 

22:34 Nathan: Well basically I just help community gardens. They might come to me and ask ‘how do we build wicking beds for people in wheelchairs and people who are in walkers as well?’ And I say you can design them depending on what site, shape, size, form, how many clients, how many people living with disabilities who are actually using wheelchairs.  So I basically inform them, I’m there just telling them ‘yes, we can design them’. There’s a design I did at the Coolum Community Gardens that we can bring that down to other community gardens. 

23:08 Jodie: So it’s looking at the site, looking at how you want to use it, who is going to be using it and figuring out a system that works for that specific place? 

23:16 Nathan: Yeah, so it’s basically just trying to help the community gardens that need help to include people with disability.  Depending on what size wheelchairs those people have, they could be really big size wheelchairs, you’ve got medium size and you’ve got smaller sizes, I can help them design specific ones for specific clients depending on how big the wheelchairs are.  We can make it go big, small, whatever they want to.   

But just telling them how they can include anyone with a disability into their community gardens first. That’s what I’ve been doing at Coolum Community Garden, trying to embrace and show people what I can do with my business and how it can actually help them. And in future if it needs any help, that’s when I come in and help them to liaise, okay this is what we need to do, this is how it helps.  

It’s basically how we can help each other and include everyone, like myself and other people who are living with disability. 

24:17 Jodie: It might sound like a lot of work having to design something in a specific place for the specific users, but whenever you’re building a garden you have to design it for the space and how you want to use it so it’s really just having something extra in mind when you’re doing what you were going to do anyway. 

24:36 Nathan: Yeah, just building a garden that’s eco-friendly for the environment and also friendly for people who use wheelchairs as well.  The last 12 months I’ve been working trying to make this business into what I can leave behind if I, hopefully I never do, but if I do pass away tomorrow at least there’s something there for future options for other people living with disability to get into it and actually get employment as well. It actually keeps people who live with disabilities like myself rolling with the ball, and it keeps getting people into horticulture. Just basically trying to make it easier for everyone, to make life a lot easier for them. 

25:20 Jodie: Nathan employs and trains other people with disability through this business, encouraging people into an industry he loves and breaking down barriers to employment. 

25:27 Nathan: With my experience, there has been a lot of barriers put up. People saying ‘oh well, Nathan’s got Aspergers, I don’t want someone that’s living with disability’. I’ve been told multiple times, for example my friend got a job at a fruit farm or somewhere like that and an employer saying ‘I don’t have the time to teach them. I want them to know what they need to know just at the snap of a finger.’  

With us we take a lot longer to understand and absorb that information, like a sponge. If you don’t have the water, you don’t absorb the information, and that’s why I want to change the way people think about us who are living with a disability and to get them into horticulture.  In a few months I’ll be working with TAFE Queensland to study a Cert II in Horticulture to embrace people like myself to get a qualification and get employment later on in the future. 

26:23 Jodie: While the work he's done with specific community gardens is already making a big difference, Nathan would like to set an example to other gardens and gardeners so the inclusion mindset can spread.

26:26 Nathan: Well I have been involved with Coolum Community Garden for nearly 12 or 13 months, but it’s been going longer than that. I’m involved with them trying to design wicking beds so everyone who’s in a wheelchair or in a walker can actually do what so-called normal people can do.   

They know how they can include people who live with disabilities, they embrace people who are living with disabilities, because I’m there saying ‘that’s what we need, this is how it helps’. If we can do it, it puts us on the map so other community gardens in Queensland and throughout Australia and the world can understand. Coolum Community Garden – if they can do it why can’t we do it? 

27:20 Jodie: To find out more about Carers Queensland’s Community Gardens Conversations visit our website at carersqld.com.au.  Under ‘NDIS Services’ look for ‘Driving Community Change’. You’ll find lots of things we’re working on from disaster readiness to access to sport and recreation, and check out Community Gardens Conversations. 

Thanks for joining us with Choice and Control, a Carers Queensland podcast.  For more information about the National Disability Insurance Scheme or Carers Queensland contact us online at carersqld.com.au.  You can call us on 1300 999 636 or head to Facebook and look for Carers Queensland NDIS. 

Mentioned in this episode 

• Community Gardens Conversations on the Carers Queensland website 
• Video with Talecia Bolton from Yarrabilba Community Garden 
• Yarrabilba Community Garden on Facebook 
• Vera Street Community Garden 
• Northey Street City Farm 
• Beachmere Community Garden 
• Moreton Bay Regional Council community gardens information 
• Swallowtail Nursery 
• Coolum Common Community Garden Project 
• Carers Queensland website 
• Carers Queensland upcoming events and workshops 
• Carers Queensland NDIS on Facebook 

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